How to Find the Best Lymphatic Drainage Massage Therapist

Announcer (00:09):
Welcome to another episode of The La Jolla Cosmetic Podcast with your host, Monique Ramsey.

Monique Ramsey (00:17):
So you've booked your plastic surgery, you're prepping for the big day, but have you thought about what happens after? Swelling, stiffness and the puffy sore feeling can linger, but the right lymphatic drainage specialist can be your secret weapon for a smoother, faster recovery. So Kathleen Lisson is back on the podcast today to tell us what makes a great post-op lymphatic therapist, and I hope I'm saying the right words in the right order. So welcome back, Kathleen.

Kathleen Lisson (00:46):
Hello. It's so nice to be here again.

Monique Ramsey (00:48):
Hi. So if you guys have followed her, you see her videos, they're so great on Instagram. And what's your Instagram handle?

Kathleen Lisson (00:56):
@KathleenLisson, so my name.

Monique Ramsey (00:59):
She has such great little short videos about recovery, about what to look for. And so what I thought we could do today is sort of explore all of the things with related to pre and post-op care and then also if you're thinking about surgery, then how far ahead do we have to be planning? If you're not lucky enough to live in San Diego where Kathleen is based, then let's say you're in Connecticut and you are looking and you think, okay, I want to get my ducks in order. What should you be looking for? There's a lot of people out there who might say they are a specialist, but they're not necessarily, I think first I want to ask you, what role does lymphatic drainage play in healing after procedures like liposuction, tummy tuck, BBLs, even facelifts?

Kathleen Lisson (01:48):
Yes, even in especially facelifts because the surgery that I had, and it definitely helped me to move the lymphatic fluid. So I want to get a little bit sciencey and then I'll go right back to being clever and short.

Monique Ramsey (02:03):
You're speaking my language because I geek out on all the sciencey stuff, so,

Kathleen Lisson (02:08):
So I geek out too. So I am a board certified massage therapist. I'm also a lymphedema therapist. And lymphedema is a disease that happens after cancer surgery when they remove part of the lymphatic system in order to treat the cancer. So then you'll have a backup of swelling because the lymphatic system is where the body puts all of the waste products from the cells to put it back into circulation. So it eventually goes to the liver, the swelling goes to the kidneys and then the bladder, and then you urinate it out. So the sciencey part is if anyone has been practicing medicine over 10 to 15 years when they were in medical school, they would've learned about starling's theory, which guided people to think that the majority of the fluid was returned through the vein system. So what we used to think is the circulatory system has a pump, it's the heart, and then the arteries and the capillaries give nutrition to each and every cell in the body.

(03:14):
And then under the starlings principle, the veins returned all the waste products back into circulation. But about 10 years ago, 12 years ago, they discovered the endothelial. So this is a layer in the veins that if the veins are healthy, if the system is healthy, there is no little to no return of fluids through the veins. Instead, it really is a lymphatic system that takes a lion's share of fluid back, including the larger molecules like the fat molecules. So this is why paying attention and understanding the lymphatic system is so important to healing anything. If you have inflammation, if you have swelling after surgery, and surgeons will have had their hands on the lymphatic system before, especially if they're well trained and they've gone through a rotation of breast surgery because in order for them to find that sentinel lymph node to take it out and to test it to see if there's metastatic cancer, they have to inject dye in near the tumor and then the dye moves through the lymphatic system to that first lymph node.

(04:25):
So they will have seen the activity of the lymphatic system during their medical education. So just also know that this is what is taking the lion's share of the swelling that is created by the surgery away. So the lymphatic massage that we do, manual lymphatic drainage, I do it Vader style of manual lymphatic drainage is a gentle skin stretching stroke because the lymphatic system out in the wild, just how do we have a healthy lymphatic system? It's joint movement, the stretching and bending and twisting at the joints. The stretching of the skin is how our body naturally moves the lymphatic fluid from the interstitium to the lymphatics. There's little micro filaments that are at the end of the initial lymphatic capillary, so when the skin stretches underneath those filaments move and then the fluid goes into the initial lymphatics. So that's how mimicking this skin, stretching stroke by this gentle pressure on the skin is how we're moving the fluid into the lymphatic system. And a lot of people will see when they don't move those joints that swelling occurs. Particularly if you sit all day, if you're not moving that cal calf pump, if you're not moving that ankles, you'll see that swelling in the ankles in the lower legs.

Monique Ramsey (05:49):
Sort of like what happens to your body during pregnancy. You look at your legs and feet and you're like, those aren't mine. It pools up. Is that why they tell you keep moving? It plays a big role. And I know with my facelift also, it was the same for me. I had to get ready for a wedding in 10 days after and I felt like a pumpkin. And so I ended up having lymphatic drainage. I mean, this is 20 years ago, but oh my gosh, it helps so much and it is such a light touch. It's not like a massage that most of us are, if you've had a massage, you know what that feels like? It's completely different, right?

Kathleen Lisson (06:25):
It's massage, but it's definitely not deep tissue. No elbows are used. No crying is happening,

Monique Ramsey (06:33):
Right? If it hurts, maybe that's not a good thing. It's not a good thing. Let's talk about training. And I know you do training all around the world and teach people how to do lymphatic drainage. And tell us a little bit about post-surgical lymphatic work and are there certain credentials or certifications that people should look for when they're interviewing somebody?

Kathleen Lisson (06:57):
That's one thing that a lot of people think, and that is not true. And I don't actually teach manual lymphatic drainage. I teach the other skills that you need on top of manual lymphatic drainage, like fibrosis, massage techniques. So I went and got trained by close training. It's really active in America and then also around the world, and it teaches Vader style manual lymphatic drainage. Like I said, I took a 40 hour in-person MLD class, and then I went and then again 135 hour lymphedema therapy class so I could help people after lymphedema. I wish it was as easy as it is when we talk about how to choose a plastic surgeon. So easy find a board certified plastic surgeon, but there is no widely recognized board certification in specific types of massage. We have board certification and therapeutic massage and bodywork that kind of is overall different types of massage.

(07:55):
So what I really want people to focus on is three things. Number one is safety, number two is expertise, and number three is passion. So the first one is safety. And Monique alluded to it earlier, it seems like especially with AI and social media, some people aren't who they say they are. Not everyone is who they say they are. So you have to have some kind of independently verified, independent way to verify that they are like a licensed or certified massage therapist, PT, OT nurse, that they have some kind of foundational education that will give them the authority to do massage on you in the state that you live in. And that will also give liability insurance. So if anything goes wrong that you will be covered, that they don't just disappear if anything goes wrong. So that's the safety part. Make sure the person that you're going to, you can take a lot of continuing education classes, and I just had a message from someone earlier this week and they were like, oh, they're a body sculptor.

(09:00):
I took all these other classes. What do I have to do to do this legally? And I said, you have to go to massage school. You can take all the classes and technically know how to do it, but if you can't do it legally, you shouldn't be doing it for clients and taking money. The second is education. So I think what we're going to see in the future, and what I see starting around Los Angeles is that the surgeons are just saying, you know what? Go to a CLT, go to a lymphedema therapist. These people know their MLD up and down, back and forward. They know about compression because they taught us about compression and lymphedema school, and I was taught to be able to help someone with the swelling after their surgery and after their cancer treatment. So these are medically fragile patients. They have a lot of different medical issues and we're seeing that a lot in our plastic surgery patients and clientele, especially in the last 10 years.

(10:00):
Cancer is no longer a death sentence. People are having cancer, they're surviving cancer, and then they're going and saying, you know what? I'm going to do something. I've been through so many surgeries that were necessary. I'm going to do something for myself, something to make me feel beautiful. And the surgeons are saying, I need someone that can not only give them the MLD to help from this surgery, but I want the person that I send them to for their recovery to know how to not harm them because of their medical history and the other things that are on their health history form. So if someone has chronic illness, if someone has a cancer history, you need to as a surgeon, be confident that the person you're sending them to has expertise with those clients. And the third is passion. I want to see the person that you choose be in this and be passionate about it. I want them. You should ask, when was your last continuing education class that had to do with MLD? How often are you learning about new surgeries and new ways to help clients? How often on their website are they talking about it? How often they're on their social media? Are they talking about it? And I'm super passionate about it. I wake up and when I go to sleep at night, I think, how can I make myself better each and every day?

(11:20):
And that is the therapist that you want helping you because that's also the plastic surgeon that you want helping you. You want a plastic surgeon, they're board certified plus How many procedures have you done that are similar to mine? How many clients that are similar to me have you seen? So the same question you would ask your massage therapist, your PT, OT, your nurse, what percentage of your clientele is after plastic surgery clients? How many other facelift clients have you seen?

Monique Ramsey (11:51):
And maybe it's the same. I don't know for face or for body, are there any red flags that might suggest somebody's not necessarily qualified to work on a post-op patient?

Kathleen Lisson (12:03):
And you can be totally qualified, but you can do still do the wrong thing. You can be misguided. So the first thing is going to be pain is going to be someone is causing you pain. It should not be painful, that you should not be crying. You should not be moaning, you should not be screaming. You should not be ever, ever called a crybaby or have that guilt put back on you as a patient for your reaction to their massage. I have had more than a handful of clients that it has been unusually painful for them. And that's when as a massage therapist, we adjust and adjust and adjust and try different things to get them to their goal using different avenues. You need to see the patient in front of you. You need to treat the whole person, not just the part of them that had liposuction.

(12:59):
And you need to react and understand what they're going through. And there's some things that we can do to really bring the anxiety down in our clients, deep breathing, looking them in the eye, building a trust relationship with them. And I have definitely, if someone comes and it's just overwhelming pain, I've taken my hands off of them and I've said, you know what? Maybe let's cut the session off and let's do it again next week. If you're in so much pain, it's time to stop and someone trying to make you push through it, that's not the right therapist for you.

Monique Ramsey (13:36):
I remember one of your videos and I can't remember exactly, so I'm going to ask you if the specialist is trying to push fluid out of you, that's a no-no, right? They shouldn't be trying to drain you from the lipo incision.

Kathleen Lisson (13:54):
So definitely that's a practice that's done in other parts of the world. It's a conversation that you need to have with your plastic surgeon on whether they want that to be appropriate for you. If someone is telling you, if you get your surgery at La Jolla Cosmetic and they're telling you that they want you to go for lymphatic massage or manual lymphatic drainage, they don't mean that they want someone to poke open your incision holes after your liposuction and push the fluid out. So be very clear with your surgeon exactly what they want done to you, and if that is what they want done to you, it has to be someone who that is within their scope of practice to do it. And as a massage therapist, it is not within my scope of practice to do the practice of medicine to reopen someone's incision and express fluid out.

Monique Ramsey (14:46):
If you were to design the perfect pre and post-op package for somebody, would you have them come ahead of time? And if so, when? And then afterwards, when and how many times maybe would somebody see you? And does that depend on if it's a 360 lipo versus a facelift, does that change depending on the procedure?

Kathleen Lisson (15:08):
Yes. Yes. So first I would say in my perfect world, I'd want you to really think about what happens with your own lymphatic system. I spoke earlier that some people do get swelling in the ankles, in the legs after they've had a long day. Some people get bloating. Some people if they have salt, they just really blow up. We can evaluate our own lymphatic system. And if you feel like, yeah, my lymphs kind of sluggish, I'm not as healthy as I could be or I'm stressed out and especially in the last week of surgery, I'm really wondering why in the world I scheduled this and I can feel my heart beating out of my chest because lymphatic massage, not only are we moving the lymphatic system, but it's a gentle stroke. It's a gentle massage, so it will help you to balance that fight or flight sympathetic nervous system.

(16:01):
So you'll be calmer after this massage, which will help you go in healthier to your plastic surgery because you don't want a lot. This rush of adrenaline really fatiguing your body in the days before surgery. So in an ideal world, I would want you to come in for at least one, one or two. This is also good, especially if you're out of town that you're here and you kind of make that dry run. So where you're going after surgery, you've met me, you know what the office looks like, you know how to get there. So there's not as much stress that couple days first week after surgery of like, oh, now I have to meet this new lady and I have to lay on her table and I've never met her before and I feel really sick and I feel really pain and now I have to go and do this.

(16:49):
So if you come to the session before you can really feel what the lymphatic drainage feels like, and so you'll be the tension of, oh my God, is this really going to hurt? That's really going to go down because you're going to experience it. And it's really interesting of the people that I've had their massages before surgery. It's so funny because their experience is like, oh, the surgery wasn't really a big deal. I didn't really swell that much after surgery. I don't see what the point of getting lymphatic massages is. And I was like, exactly, because your lymphatic system is working correctly. That's why it's almost like if you're paying for a session beforehand, it's almost like it comes out of the bank. You have one less session afterwards if you get the session beforehand because then your lymphatic system is kind of like primed. There's not a lot of swelling in the field when the surgeon is doing their operation.

Monique Ramsey (17:45):
Yeah, I love that.

Kathleen Lisson (17:46):
So afterwards, I would want to, if someone just had liposuction, I want to see them like four to five days after surgery. If someone had a facelift, I really want to see you after 10 days. So 10 to 14 for the tummy tuck. Dr. Swistun sometimes wants people to come in with their drain still in. So I will do that if the surgeon's like, yes, it's okay that you still have drains, but if not, I really like to see people either the day before, the day after their drains are out, and especially the day after because the drain is taking that interstitial fluid away and putting it into the drain. That's the point of the drain. So once you take the drains out, your lymphatic system is up to bat in the major leagues and it's the only thing that is pulling that fluid in.

(18:34):
So to have a little bit of help, often that's when their eyes are open. They're like, oh my gosh, I'm so much, I'm so much more swollen than I was the day before. I got my drains out. And I was like, yep. Because that's when there's no more helper. There's no more training wheels on the bike. You're just riding the Tour de France by yourself. So that's it. Brazilian butt lifts because of the liposuction four to five days. And then anything body lifts can be more like two weeks. I really want you to have, if it's a big, big surgery, I want you to have one visit with the surgeon so they can tell that you're doing all right, that everything looks fine.

Monique Ramsey (19:13):
Ideally, do they set up a plan ahead of time and if so, how far ahead of time, even if it needs to be adjusted maybe by a couple days here and there, do you prefer that they kind of say, okay, I'm going to get a series of three and here's one, we're going to do 'em.

Kathleen Lisson (19:30):
Usually better for their schedule. So I will schedule out, because often, especially if they have a tummy tuck, I'll also do oncoplastic. So if someone has a deep flap reconstruction, some kind of breast reconstruction, their partner, they'll have someone driving them, they're not going to be driving themselves. So we'll have to plan around their spouses, their family members schedule. So for us to be able to get three on the books makes it less hectic for that family member to plan around. So ideal would be the day you have the surgery, the day that surgery is booked and you put that deposit down, you should call the post-op therapist. And some people really like that, especially the really type A or I need to be organized people and everything's like you have a binder that you bring to La Jolla Cosmetic with this page and everything is highlighted, then you'll feel so much calmer that you have everything organized.

Monique Ramsey (20:26):
Earlier you said a word and I want to explore that word. You talked about fibrosis. What does that?

Kathleen Lisson (20:31):
The fibrosis is scar tissue. People get sensitive when you talk about scar tissue and they maybe think that only making an incision can cause scar tissue, but I have to remind people who have had Lipo 360 and they are stunned at the amount of pain that they're in. I like to tell 'em, you just had surgery on one quarter of your body just because there's those tiny little things that are going to look like a freckle in a year for the incisions. You had a lot of surgery around an entire layer of your body. So when the lymphatic fluid is there, we want to get the lymphatic fluid plus the proteins into the lymphatic system to reduce the swelling. And that's going to hopefully reduce some of the fibrosis because there's not going to be stuff just like sitting in the interstitial like proteins and just gathering and kind of clogging up.

(21:28):
So it's good to have lymphatic massage in the beginning to get the swelling out to kind of reduce the inflammation. But inflammation can have a roll in creating fibrosis down the line. We usually say, and people do have fibrosis and fibrotic fat in their body even before the surgery, and surgeons know this because sometimes it's easy to do the liposuction and sometimes it's like your rotator cuff is hurting after you do the liposuction on people because of their fibrotic fat. So that can be something that we're helping to massage. We're just helping the body to naturally heal itself. With the fibrosis techniques that I have, I use the same manual lymphatic drainage that I would use on someone who had lymphedema with lympho static fibrosis. But I add these fibrosis techniques on that we were taught and we're taught as I travel around the world and go to different conferences and we see the different ways that we treat fibrosis in people after lymphedema, and I've just brought those techniques to the plastic surgery clients that I have.

Monique Ramsey (22:40):
Now, is it typical that the plastic surgeon and the lymphatic specialists are in contact with each other throughout this time or not normally?

Kathleen Lisson (22:49):
I sure hope so. You have a good surgeon and there's so many good surgeons at La Jolla Cosmetic. I love them. They're very responsive. And as a massage therapist, I am not going off my own like a cowboy. I am part of a medical team, and that's the style that I like to practice is to be part of the medical team and interact with the other members of my client's medical team. So I will give a massage therapy care plan to the surgeon, and the surgeon can always feel free to call me or contact me or talk to their client about the scheduling and what they want to see. And from what I've experienced, having that two-way communication is really good for a massage therapist to build that relationship to get future referrals. So if you are a post-op massage therapist and you're not talking to the plastic surgeons, they are not thinking of you when their next patient comes in complaining of swelling because you are not having that two-way communication with them.

Monique Ramsey (23:56):
Okay, now I'm going to get really controversial. Are you ready?

Kathleen Lisson (23:58):
I love it.

Monique Ramsey (24:00):
Okay, Kathleen. Let's do it. Okay. Well, I have three different things to really talk about. One is we have all this information at our fingertips and we can go on YouTube and there's probably thousands or millions of videos that are telling you something or that you could do it at home. I can have my spouse help me out and I could do it at home, or there's tools that I could buy and do it at home. And also there's people out there who have really cool, maybe post athletic recovery, puffy things that are automatic. You put the thing on, you put your legs in, you put the vest on, and it does some lymphatic therapy. Tell me about all those things where people are kind of trying to dip their toe into the post-op massage except for they're kind of maybe not necessarily doing it in the right way.

Kathleen Lisson (24:59):
So I would say if you had a half a liter of liposuction, you could probably get away with doing massage on yourself. There's definitely people out there who have recovered and they're perfectly happy with their results and their husband did their massage, maybe like 15 minutes here, 15 minutes there. But I think from what I've seen in my clients, if you have more than two liters of liposuction, they really tell me that they benefit from these massages. They feel more confident because someone is kind of having eyes on and someone is answering and asking their personal questions that they know is an expert because I mean, AI is crazy. And it's almost, I think in a year you won't be able to believe anything unless you can independently verify something. Seriously. Everything is so realistic. So I think we will increasingly value somebody that we know is an expert, somebody that was referred to them by their plastic surgeon, being able to ask that person a question, being able to answer it From what I've seen, the people will come and they'll look me in the eye and be like, how do I look?

(26:15):
How did I look last week? What do you think my progress is? And then a lot of people that third or fourth visit in starting the second visit, but definitely the third or fourth visit, they'll come and it makes me so happy because they'll be like, this was the highlight of my week. I look forward to going to this massage because they get to lie down and someone's relaxing and we're breathing and we're doing the gentle massage, and they're getting up and they wear their compression garment and maybe they're on a smaller hook or they're able to get up in their range of motion in the arms being able to twist, being able to bend over and tie their shoes, being able to twist and toilet. They're seeing the improvement in their activities of daily living, even if it's not something that they can put their hand on, like, oh, I look so much different from one hour to the next, but they feel different in their body.

(27:11):
So I don't even do, I don't sell non-refundable 10 session massages because I get people and they will come out of the session and they will be like, oh my God, when is my next session? I can't wait to book next week. So those are the benefits that you can't really get if you're trying to follow, if you're just trying to follow a video at home. So I have videos on my YouTube where I have a self massage, like after tummy tuck, it's self massage after facelift. So you can do those, but I want you to do them in between these professional massage sessions where you can really have that connection with the professional that is helping you on that journey of recovery.

Monique Ramsey (27:55):
Now, okay. But tell me about, because I do see people online who you go to them, but they put you in a vest or they put you in a suit that does the lymph. Is that safe?

Kathleen Lisson (28:07):
It's safe. And some of those suits are specially designed for after plastic surgery specifically. And I know surgeons in California, both northern and Southern California will use them. And I think it's a good adjunct, and I think it's good for some clients, but some clients, especially if you have, because the machine is going to do its program and it's going to do the same program for everybody. And if someone comes in as I often get that says, well, I have this chunk of fibrosis that's right here or right here, it's a specific area. It's a human in their hands that can really look at that fibrosis and knows how to treat it.

(28:49):
The machine will just give you that cookie cutter uniform massage, which is good, and which you can definitely do in between your appointments. So that's with the machines that your surgeon will recommend. But there's also what I like to call the lymph tax. I made that up yesterday just for you, Monique, because of this question. Yay. So we all know as women about the pink tax, which is they'll take something and if you color it pink and tell it's people, it's for women, you can charge extra for it. Well, now I see, especially with some social media platforms, not doing anything to fact check anything anymore. We've just seen an ocean, especially as lymphedema therapists, we get this because we get our clients with lymphedema, which is a disease after cancer that people are advertising items are not medically cleared by the FDA to treat lymphedema as if they would.

(29:47):
But there's this lymph tax, and I've seen the one I see a lot this week is it's like a neck massager, and they,

Monique Ramsey (29:54):
I've seen that one too.

Kathleen Lisson (29:55):
They bump their price up to $200 and they tell you that it's magic for your lymphatic system. And I think the great answer that's sitting in front of us is that if you're looking at this podcast, hopefully you've chosen a surgeon at La Jolla Cosmetic, and they will be a really great resource. The surgeons or the nurses will be able to steer you to something that they would recommend. And then I would go with your board certified plastic surgeon's recommendation.

Monique Ramsey (30:24):
One of the other things that I know about you, because I've gotten the book, is you have a book, which is called the Plastic Surgery Recovery Handbook. And tell me a little bit about that book and who it's for. I think it's probably for everybody, and what kinds of things that patients can get from that resource.

Kathleen Lisson (30:43):
So what I saw, the book is available on Amazon, but it's a book that I wrote to give to my clients at their first visit because what I was finding was like I talked about how relaxing manual lymphatic drainage is, what I was finding is for the first session or two, the clients would, they would be so eager to see me and so eager to be with somebody for an hour that potentially would know all these little questions that they didn't want to bother the nurse with. So they would stay awake and ask me and answer, and I could see how they were struggling to remember it. And they really wanted to take notes during their massage. So I said to myself, what are the questions that I'm getting asked over and over and over again? And I looked into PubMed into the research from the journal articles.

(31:33):
What are the answers that the researchers have found? So I put that together and organized it by chapter, and so I will give them a copy at the day I see them for their first massage. And I've had a lot of people go like, this is a really great resource. And I tell them, this is the resource I want you to do so you can have a conversation informed conversation with your surgeon, because I want to have a better conversation between the patient and the surgeon. And sometimes patients don't want to bother their surgeon with things, and this is what I'll say a thousand percent is someone who has been through surgery at La Jolla Cosmetic bother them because it's not a bother. Text them and you'll get the answer. There is no one more invested in your recovery than your plastic surgeon. No one wants to see you recovered. No one wants to answer your questions, even the littlest, tiniest one more than your plastic surgeon because they want you to get the results and they want you to have the best recovery possible.

Monique Ramsey (32:42):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel like sometimes you don't even know what you don't know. So having that resource to me is like, oh, I never would've thought of that question, but that's a really good question. And it's almost like a tool to then open that up, that conversation with the doctor or the nurse. But you're right now that I'm in the business for almost 34 years, some of these things are kind of like they're always the questions people have. And we try to, in the booklet we give to the patients at their pre-op, we try to think of everything, but you can't think of everything, especially when people are going on the internet and finding out who knows what.

(33:23):
So I mean, we've actually had, I think two or three patients in the last month, how did you hear about us? And they said, chat, GBT. And I'm like, okay, that's really cool. But it's also frightening because somebody eventually is going to figure out how can I game the system? How can I game the chat GPT system so that I get recommended versus the guy down the street? I mean, who knows where we're going? But so we'll put a link in the show notes to the book because I think it's really, it's not expensive. And when you're spending a lot of time and money to have a good result, it's like you want to be as prepared as possible.

(33:59):
And I feel like that's an excellent resource and have, it gives you sort of the tools to ask those questions of your surgeon and to sort of help yourself get prepared. Because I think the more that we know, the less scared we are. So the more information we can have, at least this is for me. I had a oral surgery recently and I got one piece of paper. Kidding. And here's a guy who is top in his field. One piece of paper.

Kathleen Lisson (34:29):
Insurance based is scary? Yeah.

Monique Ramsey (34:32):
Well, it wasn't even that. It was almost, I don't even want to say how much it was. I would've rather spent it at the surgery center, but it was very expensive and I get this one piece of paper and I was freaking out and they didn't want to see me for a week. And the whole time I'm like, would make up stuff in my head and going online and trying to learn on my own and am I healing okay or am I not? I mean, it was just so silly. And I'm like, okay, this is why we give the booklet. Because again, it's just, it brought home to me knowledge is everything. And so that's why I wanted to have you on today because I love following your Instagram. I love the things you come up with from your car or you're like, this is what you should do, and they're so helpful. And so I kind of wanted to have all that in one episode for people. So it's one resource. Now, is there anything we didn't cover?

Kathleen Lisson (35:23):
So two things that I like about the Plastic Surgery Handbook that I really wrote into it is at the beginning you'll have, I think it's three pages of questions with space to write answers to your surgeon during the consultation. So you could do this at your first one, or you could do this when you see them the week before the surgery to get an idea of how they want your recovery to go. And it's simple ones, when do I get into a pool versus when do I start exercise? When can I stop wearing my compression garment? Things like that. So that's really essential to know. You see the doctor a lot in the first week or two and a lot of nurses, and then they, you're healing by the spacing out of the visits, and then it's kind of like you're out there in the wild and you have questions. So it's great to take care of those answers during that consultation. And then near the end of the book is, I think the first month is a space with just each day you have two lines and you can write about the tiny little victories that you had today. I had more appetite today. I went a little bit smaller in my compression garment today. I could feel heat on my forehead after my face.

(36:40):
Because what I see a lot with clients, especially in the first two and three weeks, is you look yourself in the mirror a hundred times a day. You can't see the progress. So I have a lot of people who are saying, I don't really see a difference. And it's so beneficial for them to be able to look back in that book and read and be like, oh, that's right. Two weeks ago I couldn't even walk down the block and now I can walk all the way around my block. So I am healing. And so it's so confidence building to be able to have that list of these personal, just the tiniest little accomplishments.

Monique Ramsey (37:17):
Well, and I think we tend to, well, it makes sense. I mean, we've paid who knows how many thousands of dollars to have this surgery. You're over analyzing everything and nitpicking a little bit. There's a little time after surgery where you're just hyper-focused. And it's not a bad thing to be, you're going through it. But you can go to the doctor and they're like, yeah, you're doing great. We'll see you in six weeks. You're like, wait, what? Six weeks?

Kathleen Lisson (37:48):
It's week three. Week three. I call them my three-nagers. You're a three-nager,

Monique Ramsey (37:53):
You're a three-nager.

Kathleen Lisson (37:54):
I think when you hear that, then when you see, when you're like, ah, I hate my compression garment. I don't want to do this anymore, but also I don't see any result and I don't know why I did this, and this is so expensive. And then you look at the calendar and you're like, oh yeah, 22 days after surgery, the nitpicky has begun. And then if you know that it's a universal experience, you're going through a journey that tens of thousands of other people have gone through, and you can take solace in the fact that you're just healing. And this is the journey everyone goes through. And you're going to be all right on the end.

Monique Ramsey (38:33):
Yeah, you're going through the terrible, you're a three-nager, but it is does help you kind of know like, okay, yes, this crazy feeling that I'm having isn't just me. So the Plastic Surgery Handbook, we'll put that link in the show notes and then we'll also put links to her social medias. We'll get your YouTube channel. We'll get your Instagram. And so again, it's Kathleen Lisson, and she is here in San Diego, so we'll put her contact info and thanks everybody for listening. And thank you, Kathleen, for sharing your expert guidance for everyone.

Kathleen Lisson (39:08):
Thank you.

Monique Ramsey (39:08):
Thanks.

Kathleen Lisson (39:08):
Have a great day.

Announcer (39:12):
Take a screenshot of this podcast episode with your phone and show it at your consultation or appointment, or mention the promo code PODCAST to receive $25 off any service or product of $50 or more at La Jolla Cosmetic. La Jolla Cosmetic is located just off the I-5 San Diego Freeway in the Ximed Building on the Scripps Memorial Hospital campus. To learn more, go to ljcsc.com or follow the team on Instagram @ljcsc. The La Jolla Cosmetic Podcast is a production of The Axis, theaxis.io.